I'm so pleased to welcome Sophie Ellis-Bextor to My Life in Seven Charms.

 

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Thank you. I'm not going to disagree with anything there.

Annoushka Ducas:
That's good. Anyway.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It's all factually accurate.



Annoushka Ducas:
Do you remember going on to Blue Peter, the little one?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I don't know if I remember specifically the TV appearances, but I remember going to the studio all the time. Definitely. I mean, to be honest with you, every time I walk into a TV studio, now it takes me back to being like four or five.

Annoushka Ducas:
Oh, really?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Annoushka Ducas:
Absolutely. So am I allowed to thinking, before we get onto it first job, but when you were there, you were busy nicking Blue Peter badges.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I didn't steal the badges. No, I didn't steal the badges, actually. My mom used to have to wear a badge every time she did the show. She was doing the show twice a week. So she'd always be bringing them home. So our home was filled with a lot of Blue Peter badges. No, I did definitely try and cash in on it, to try and sell them. I say try because this is when I was at primary schools.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
My mom did Blue Peter when I was between the ages of four and eight. So pretty little. So I was trying to create some economy in a school playground where most people don't carry any cash. I think there's a few people out there that still owe 50 pee.

Annoushka Ducas:
Yeah. And they still owe you 50 pee. Yeah. Well, first business venture.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Exactly.

Annoushka Ducas:
It was pretty young. So Sophie, your first charm, I love this charm. And now I've seen it. So the first charm is a disco ball, which opens to reveal writing, which says our true intent is all for your delight. I mean, it was not hard to imagine how this should be being a jeweler, making in diamonds and 18ct gold.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I tried to play to your strengths.

Annoushka Ducas:
Thank you.


Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Just cover it in diamonds. It's fine.

Annoushka Ducas:
Thanks so much. So it's three dimensional, white gold, fully encrusted with diamonds. I kind of played with it and thought, no, I think it should be a locket. And I think cause actually, the quote's quite long. So I think we have almost little scroll inside with the quote inside it, and that'll be like a scroll in yellow. And our true intent is all for your delight is going to be engraved in it and it'll click shot. And if you shine the light on it, it will behave like a disco ball. I mean, obviously, for those of us that were following you, it was all about the kitchen disco, I assume.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yes, exactly. It's about lots of things, actually. It's about home. It's about the kitchen discos. It's about my love affair with music. It's about where I'm at in my professional life as well, I suppose, in terms of my understanding of where on the wrongs, in terms of my role when I got on stage and want to try and entertain people, really. I take my job seriously, but I have a lot of fun doing it.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
So when I come out on stage, I really want to get people dancing. I want to try and captivate as many of them as possible and try and get them all on board. But the significance of the quote is that years ago, someone gave me a book that had been put together by Martin Parr, the British photographer, and it was all shots of 1950s and 1960s Butlins. And the colors are incredible.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And they've got this weird, surreal tone to them where you can't tell how much of it is staged and how much of it is just people having a nice time in the Butlins bar or whatever it may be. And outside on the big building that was next to the swimming pool, Billy Butlins had put up, I think it's the Skegness Butlins, our true intent is all for your delight. And it's written in these huge letters across the front of this building. It looks incredible. And the quote, I was like, "Oh, that's awesome." It's so kind of striking. And I liked the way it felt to say it, you know what I mean? And to read it. So I got these big sticky letters and I put them up in our playroom.

Annoushka Ducas:
What I've just seen.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
What you've just seen. And luckily for me, I've got a household of people who are quite good about just letting me do whatever I want when the feeling takes me. So seeing me sticking these letters up and trying to get them all straight, everybody was like, "Okay, then fine." So I sat there for a while. And then when we went into the first lockdown last year and we started doing these kitchen discos, they were basically a coping mechanism for the strangeness of our new world, with the pandemic.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And as a family, our coping mechanism for a lot of stuff is usually to try and introduce a bit of duffness and joy when things get a little bit stressful and when tensions are running high, which they definitely were. So the first disco was my husband's idea.

Annoushka Ducas:
Oh, it was his idea?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It was. Yeah. I didn't know what to do with myself. I felt totally discombobulated, thrown into lots of different roles I wasn't expecting to be in.

Annoushka Ducas:
A full-time mum, a full-time carer.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Not as much the mum, it's more like the parenting through something where I didn't have all the answers. And I felt quite anxious about things myself. The news is very heavy. I was expected to be wearing a teacher's hat very quickly, to be keeping a very consistent and comforting routine in amongst the time when everything that Richard and I ad been working towards and all the stuff we had in the diary just vanished.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And I missed people. I missed connection. I missed everything. So Richard said, "Why don't we do a disco on the Friday night?" I don't even think he called it disco. Just like we can do one of your party sets and live stream it. And I was like, "That's absolutely bonkers." At the time, my youngest was 14 months, crawling around everywhere. I was like, how on earth do I sing and keep an eye on a crawling baby and parent the others and just try and keep these beats in my head. But we had a go and we really enjoyed it.

Annoushka Ducas:
What about the boys? What did they think about it? I mean, I presume the little ones just went along.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, even the big ones really. I never forced them to come, by the way. I'd say, oh, we're doing one on Friday. If you fancy it. And then mostly I'd get a full house, but sometimes some of them would sit upstairs or choose to do something else. And obviously they never really understood that anyone was watching. But I do think they understood that we all just had this half hour they could just jump around.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And I would sing songs as well that I thought they might like. I did one song from Moana and I'd play things around the house and build up the disco of like, I'm thinking of doing this cover. What do you reckon? And learn the lyrics while they're in the bath and all that kind of thing. So, yeah.

Annoushka Ducas:
That's sweet. Have you got a major kind of fancy dress box?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yes.

Annoushka Ducas:
Have you always had that?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. I mean, my outfits, I've got tons. I could have done another... Careful what you wish what, but I could do another year of this. But for the kids, we were definitely adding to the animal mask collection. That became Rich's thing. He would always put on a silly head. So we definitely grew on that. And I think I got a bit more into some of the backdrops and the tinsel curtains and stuff, just because it was a way of doing something a bit silly when everything else was so heavy, just let's wear sequins and embrace the ridiculousness of the fact that we're all stuck at home.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
We didn't expect to find ourselves living through this. Let's just run headlong into the craziness of it all, really. And also the tonic that is music. It's escapism, but it's also catharsis. I'd be having rants or letting off steam or whatever it may be in between singing Julie Andrews or whatever I had chosen to sing that week. And it felt really good. It gave us an outlet. And also I think the adrenaline and the sort of rhythm of doing something live, where there was lots of elements of what could go wrong gave us that feeling we get during a gig, basically, because that's an extension of that feeling.

Annoushka Ducas:
And was it kind of instantly successful week one?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It was in so far as we got a really warm... I thought people were going to make fun of me to an extent because I was wearing my secret cat suit and I'd really got friends. So I thought people were going to say, "Nice try, but that's kind of embarrassing, actually." But people were really warm and it made me realize that everybody needed a bit of that in their lives really.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And we were all feeling pretty weird together. But also it was I get messages from my dad or from Rich's parents saying, "Oh, I can see that Mickey's pulling himself up on the table now and had a little bop," or, "It was funny when Ray put on his Spider-Man suit," or whatever might have happened that week. So for our parents, they were seeing the grand babies, all our family, for our friends.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And there were some friends that came every week and we'd have a cocktail together. It was all virtual, of course, but it was just really nice. And then I start getting involved in the stories and hearing from people. And I'd never really engaged on that level with people that might follow me on Instagram, but I was replying to people and listening to their stories and it just became like part of a community. I can really imagine them here. It's weird.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Before each gig, we'd move the table out the way and get ourselves ready. And we always went live at 6:30 on a Friday. I felt like I could almost see them. And after we'd finish, I'd be like, oh, we didn't have that much mess in the house considering how many people came around, which is really bonkers. But it shows you like the mind trick of it, I guess. But then towards the end, I looked up and there's this sign I'd stuck there, that our true intent is all for your delight.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And it was like, maybe it all made sense that we provided that space. We did just want to bring a bit of delight. It was just about joy. It wasn't anything else. It was quite a pure exchange in that way. And it was amazing. I don't know what kind of a year I would've had without it. Yeah, it felt good. Needed a bit of that.

Annoushka Ducas:
How many did you do? What was the total?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
20 for that. Because we did a few sort of occasional. And it was a bit like Mary Poppins. I can bring it back. But it had done its thing and I didn't want it to be like there's that crazy family doing like the 73rd disco.

Annoushka Ducas:
I mean, did you think, oh, it'll be a new album at any point?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No. It wasn't until halfway through that I really even wanted to give any space to it in my sort of day job side of things, because I felt probably like lots of people that the pandemic stuff was like a pause button and then we was going to press play again and go back. It was really only the penny dropped quite slowly. I think that, oh no, this is now something that has shaped people. That's okay to acknowledge it. And it doesn't mean that you've absorbed it I guess a bit more.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
So that's when I thought I'd really love to take this live so I can actually see people and do a party set and do the covers and have some fun. So that's the first idea. So that's the tour, which will be next spring now. And the album was just born out of doing the covers and the singles and just to kind of acknowledge it, really. Make it draw it into what I normally do.

Annoushka Ducas:
The cover is great.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Ah, cheers. Yeah.

Annoushka Ducas:
It's so uplifting and it's really good. Fantastic.

Annoushka Ducas:
(music)

Annoushka Ducas:
So your second charm was a tiny tube carriage. And you said, "I want it to be district line tube carriage with Richmond on the front." So I've seen that. So I've seen it as literally a three-dimensional tube train, white gold, little red rubies at the front. And the wheels, by the way, the wheels will turn. They will absolutely turn and swivel, even that it'll only be this big. But tell me about the tube train.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I suppose for me, this is sort of incorporating a few elements because when I was choosing my charms, I knew I wanted to have something that represented my teenage years and heading into town. And for me, the tube was my independence. I've still got a lot of love for the tube because it takes me back a little bit to being sort of 16, 17.

Annoushka Ducas:
Freedom.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. Freedom and going out clubbing and just all of that stuff. It was just really significant for me. But also I've lived near tubes for a lot of my life. The majority of my life in London has been near the tube. I live near one now. So I can see the tube station from the bedroom windows. And in my house, a very little house my mom and dad used to live in together, I was on the road adjacent to a train station.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And then when my mom moved, where she was living with my stepdad, my bedroom, again, looked over Raymond school park tube station. So that's the district line and my dad stayed at the end of the district line. So he could take it to Richmond and then it was one step on, on the train. So this kind of incorporates going westbound to go and see my dad or going eastbound going to town to meet my mates. So I kind of had a bit of everything there.

Annoushka Ducas:
That's so interesting. Because your parents separated, they divorced when you were quite small.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I was four.

Annoushka Ducas
So you live with your mom. I just want to know a bit about your childhood actually, how it was growing up for you.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. So when they first divorced, yeah, I lived with my mom primarily, but I'd see my dad every other weekend. So I had about three years with my mom and I when it was just the two of us and then she met my stepdad, John, and they found out they're having a baby quite quickly. It was about three months. So when I was eight, my brother Jack was born. And that was a very happy time with Jack in the world, especially.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And my mom and John had a very, very loving, happy marriage. My dad actually remarried as well by the time I was nine or 10 to my stepmom Polly. And on that side, I've got my brother and two sisters as well. They're much younger than me. They're only in their early twenties. So I always feel that out of one unhappy marriage, I got two happy ones. And I've just loved growing the family.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
So the longest I've ever gone in my life without a baby somewhere is that eight years before Jack was born. And then since then, it's been pretty regular. And even now with the kids, my own kids, they remind me like little stage. I think that such a naught to three stage in kids' lives is so visceral, the weight of them and the way their fingers look when they're pointing to things and the way their face is moving, they're thinking.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And it's like all of that all ties in and it's like all the chronology kind of... It's such a rubbery thing, isn't it? Time. And I now take my kids to the same primary school that my brother and sister went to. So sometimes they'll be playing on the same swing seats in the park as the one that they were in. And I find all that really comforting and I really need one of my brothers or sisters to take over the babies now. I can't have the chain break, you see? It's like a maximum six years.

Annoushka Ducas:
Five down.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, exactly. So like Jack and Martha, you've got to get on with it now because I feel like the baton should be wrestled out of my hands for my husband's sake.

Annoushka Ducas:
So growing up then, at what point did you suddenly think, parties, London, get on the tube.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
As soon as I was able. I mean, at the time, youth culture was very much fixated on music. So all our TV programs and magazines and all that were always about music. So I had already got a massive passion for it. And when the brick pop scene really exploded in the mid '90s, that was really rich for our sort of musical breeding ground. So that's the time when me and my friends would go to gigs. Yeah. It felt like right place, right time for me. I love living in London, being able to go out and actually see bands that I loved live.

Annoushka Ducas:
Yeah. So lucky. But when did you start singing? I mean, when did you even realize that it was a thing for you, apart from loving music? It doesn't mean you could sing.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No. I don't think it definitely did occur to me to do it for a living. So I always feel like it came to me quite late really because I didn't have singing lessons or anything like that.

Annoushka Ducas:
Oh, you didn't?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No. I loved singing, but it wasn't something I thought of. And then when I was 16, I went to a club and I met a guy who said, "Oh, I've got a friend looking for a singer for a band." And I thought a band, that's probably something I should do and tell my grandkids I was in a band once, almost a right of passage. So I joined that band. And then as soon as we did our first gig, I felt like, oh, this is what I've been looking for. And it was like all the dots joined up.

Annoushka Ducas:
And you went straight to be the singer for the band?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, I did. This guy, Billy, that formed my first band, which was called The Audience, quite strategically, he'd already sent out demo tapes to get some interest from labels. And every time we did a gig, we had another record company make an offer. So by the time I reached my 18th birthday, we had six record deal offers on the table and used my 18th birthday as the marker of announcing who we'd signed to. So I did my 18th birthday at this club called The Borderline in Soho and at midnight, so literally when I turned 18, we announced on stage we were going to sign to Mercury.

Annoushka Ducas:
Cool. On your birthday.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, it was quite cool. So that was April. And then in May, I sat my A levels. So I finished school. And then in June, I went off and went touring.

Annoushka Ducas:
And there was no question in your head that you were going to do anything. I mean, university, you were just like, no, this is what I want to do.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I applied to uni actually, but I deferred my first year and thought, okay, I'll go off and go touring and see how that feels. But as I got further into it, I thought, oh no, I really want to do this full time. But then sadly, by the time I was 20, the band got dropped. So it was all very quick. Everything went very fast. My friends were still finishing their degrees and I thought, oh, golly, I've really screwed this up.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
My band didn't amount to anything. I've lost my record deal. I'm not in university and I don't really know what else I can do. And I thought, so what am I going to do about it? Am I going to be someone that only wants to sing when I've got a record deal handed to me on a plate or do I want to do it because I just love it? I thought, oh, it's option two. I just love it. I'll just do it. And if the best is already behind me, then I just have to deal with that really.

Annoushka Ducas:
Oh, that's amazing. How did you cope with being dumped, relatively?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Oh, it was horrible. It was really horrible. I think there were lots of emotions attached to it and obviously it's quite humiliating, but also I found it very confusing and I was a bit sort of flabbergasted really that something disintegrates so quickly, not just the record deal side of it, because I understand there's business on that side, but the band. We just got to dropped during the year I would've turned 20.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And then I sent the band all Christmas cards that year and I didn't hear back from anybody. And I don't think it was anything malicious. I think it was just they were thinking, oh, we're not in a band anymore because we don't have a deal. And they were all a bit older than me. A lot of them had been session players. They were a lot more experienced.

Annoushka Ducas:
Yeah. They'd seen it before a bit.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. So I misunderstood that we were going to keep going. So yeah, I found myself a bit high and dry really. But then unbeknownst to me, I actually still had a publishing deal.

Annoushka Ducas:
Yeah. I read that. So tell me about that. You didn't even realize that.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I knew that I'd been signed into it, but I didn't think anything would come of it because I'd never written anything.

Annoushka Ducas:
So just for people listening who don't understand how the music business goes, can you just explain, it was the same record company that you had to publish a deal with them? Was it?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No. So basically, with any new artist or band, there's two main things that you sign a deal for. So you've got your record deal, which is about your recordings and owning the rights to the recordings and then selling them. And then the other side of it is owning the rights to the songwriting. With our band, the majority of the songs were written by this guy, Billy, but I didn't... I mean, I'm sure it was explained to me, by the way, but I probably kind of glazed over it in the meeting.

Annoushka Ducas:
You were 18.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, exactly. But he signed a publishing deal that had to have my name on it too. So when he left, the publishing company stopped working with him, but they kept me on. And at the time, I'd never written anything. I didn't write anything in the audience. And I wasn't actually particularly interested in songwriting, to be honest. So I got sent from that publishers, they were a company called Rondo, and they sent me a instrumental of a dance track that was called Groove Jets.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And I listened to it and I thought, why are they sending me this? This is actually quite insulting. I'm an indie artist and they've sent me this dance track and I think they obviously don't know who I am at all. This is horrible. I stop listening to it. And then a couple of weeks later, I was tidying up my flat and found the CD again and put it on and thought, actually, there's something about this I quite like. So I went from a meeting at EMI and I said, what's the deal with this track? And they said, oh, it's a big hit in the clubs already and we're looking for someone to sing it, but we also want someone to write.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
So I went home and wrote a little idea and then went into a studio and recorded it. And they liked my verses. And a guy called Rob Davis, who used to be in mud, he'd written the chorus. I was a bit frustrated that he'd said ain't because I was like that's bad grammar, but I went in and sung it. And then I thought, you know what? This is going to be good for me. Not because I had any idea that the song was going to do anything, but because it was a world away from the indie world and that world of the enemy and melody maker had been quite tough particularly on I felt young girls.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It wasn't the most cuddly environment. And I thought a bit screw you really. I'm going to do a dance record and it won't make any sense to you and you'll be thinking we don't write about dance music. And therefore, I can just be a bit liberated from that to have a bit of an adventure and that'd be good for my head. And it really was. And then also the song did really well, kind of street me up and I had this whole other adventure with Groove Jet. But I didn't see that happening at all. I had no idea.

Annoushka Ducas:
And that was two years later after you were....

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No. Actually, it was the following summer. So in actual fact, everything happened very, very quickly with all of it. So yeah. I started singing in the band at 16 and five years later, I had the number one Groove Jet when I was 21. (music)

Annoushka Ducas:
But I'm also slightly fascinated by charm three, which is a cherry with a detachable store.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. There we go.

Annoushka Ducas:
So I see this totally as close to a cherry as we could make it. So all pave set rubies in 18ct gold with a knot in the stalk.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Perfect. And inside, it just has a little ebony stone.

Annoushka Ducas:
But tell me about this charm.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
So I picked this one because I wanted one of the charms to have a bit more of a sort of cultural reference, I guess. And for me, one thing that was really significant was also watching things like Twin Peaks. So Twin Peaks I just thought was just the most brilliant TV and so atmospheric and quirky and odd and lots of humor and weirdness. And I loved it. I absolutely lapped it up.

Annoushka Ducas:
The girl characters in particular, the females were incredibly... They were just kind of other worldly, very beautiful. Lots of them had this sort of inner stillness and story, like lots of layers going on behind their expressions. And one of them was a girl called Audrey, whose dad, it turned out, ran a place called One Eye Jacks, which was a strip club.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
This is on the program?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yes. And it's a very disturbing scene. She ends up going in disguise as a teenage girl to audition to become one of the strippers at One Eye Jack. She just wants to understand more of what's going on there, I think. So she has to go and pass this interview. And when she goes in, they say, why should we hire you? And she takes a cherry stalk and ties in a knot with her tongue and puts it on the table. So I thought that's flipping cool.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And then as I got older, I thought everybody's got to have a party tricks or how to go at it. And basically I can do that. So I was like, great. I mean, it's a bit of an annoying party trick because it's seasonal and relies on there being specific fruits. But at least there's one thing I can do. So I thought it was quite fun to have it as a naughty party trick, but also just outside influences really.

Annoushka Ducas:
But do you think the kind of the whole look and the vibe has influenced the way that you dress, you present yourself, or certainly then?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I don't think I'm as stylish as Twin Peaks, but I definitely think that the sort of darkness and the quirkiness of it is definitely something that resonated with me then. Yeah. I would love people to have it there as a possible mood board inspiration for me because it definitely is in my hearts. Definitely. Yeah. And I talk about it with my friends at school the next day and everything that went on. And it was a bit grown up. So I was 11, 12 when it was on. So I was quite young.

Annoushka Ducas:
You were young.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. But I think sometimes it's quite nice as a kid when you get introduced to something that's a little bit more adult and it just ignites something in you a little bit. I sort of take my lead from my kids about what it is that they seem ready for and what they'll get out of things. That's not to say I would turn a blind eye. It's more that I like to keep a very open communication with what they're seeing, where and what they're interested in.

Annoushka Ducas:
And to keep relevant as well.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Exactly. Yeah.

Annoushka Ducas:
Totally. And so was your mom like that?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
She actually is like that, but she actually didn't let me watch Twin Peaks, funny enough.

Annoushka Ducas:
Oh, she doesn't?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No.

Annoushka Ducas:
So you had to go watch it quietly.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I'd watch it at my dad's house. And then every other weekend when I wasn't with him, I had a black and white telly in my bedroom. So I learned how to watch things so that I had the volume down low and the contrast down there so that if my mom or John came near my bedroom, I could quickly turn them both down, thus not making the sound telltale sound of the click, but the telly looked like it was off.

Annoushka Ducas:
And not having any light under the door.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Exactly. I mean, the black and white telly, desperate times. I even used to watch snooker I was so nocturnal. I would stay up really late and the only thing on night was snooker. I did actually learn how to watch snooker in black and white.

Speaker 4
And with that break of 71, Stephen Hendry brings a great championship to an end.

Annoushka Ducas:
I love this little charm. So this is charm four. And it's just a little amp. And you were very specific. You said it's just an amp and it's going to have nice amp written on it. So I've just done it exactly as I imagine an amp. So it's white gold with gray kind of rhodium on it. And then little black diamonds where the little knobs are. But nice amp engraved at the front. And again, it's a locket because I know that's representative of Richard. So I thought it'd be nice to engrave it inside with Richard and Sophie on one side. So talk us through this nice amp.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. I think if these charms were all for sale on the shop, I think this is the one you'd probably sell the least of. Isn't it like, what's that? A little amp.

Annoushka Ducas:
You'd be so surprised. I think you'd so surprised.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Okay. Yeah. So this is one, I mean, I could have easily put Richard in the sort of a family one, but actually I think Richard and I have always been quite good at having things that are just ours too. So I wanted to make sure there's one that's just for him. So Richard and I have now been together 18 years. I have to think there. We've actually got quite a handy marker. Our eldest boy, it's always one year older than him. We've been together one year younger than we've been married.

Annoushka Ducas:
That is handy.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. And we met because I was looking for a touring band when I did first ever solo tour on my own. I needed a band to support me.

Annoushka Ducas:
Hang on. How old were you?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
22, I guess, when we met.

Annoushka Ducas:
God, so young.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
We didn't immediately start going out. So we knew each other for about a year before we started dating. But when we first met, I just went over and I said, "Nice amps." That's the first thing I ever said to him. And now it always makes us laugh a little bit.

Annoushka Ducas:
He remembers specifically.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
He does remember. Yes.

Annoushka Ducas:
I think that was a really good chat up line. Was he just like, what?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
You know what? It's funny because I never really understood it before when people said they were friends for a long time before they started dating. I always thought, come on, surely you get together or you don't. But when we met, I was in a long term relationship. So was Richard. We just became friends. And we were touring and we had lots of fun, but it was in a band and it wasn't until a good sort of year and a half I think of knowing each other that we started dating. And then we actually initially decided, okay, we won't really tell anybody.

Annoushka Ducas:
The rest of the band?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. Or a friend or whatever that we're having a date because we just want to see for ourselves if this feels right. And then after we had been on a handful of dates, we realized that we were actually having a baby. So then I had to quickly phone friends and say, "My bass player, Richard, we're going out and actually we're having a baby." I can still remember the phone calls.

Annoushka Ducas:
How did you feel when you found that out, given it was early days?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. It was early days, but weirdly it wasn't quite as odd as you might think. I mean, it definitely wasn't a planned baby. But it also didn't shock us as much as maybe it might. I don't know. Something about it felt like, well, yeah, of course there's someone else going to come. And it meant that right from the get go, we were already three. But I think it just set us up that we were family from the get go really. And I think in a lot of ways, it sort of consolidated everything at the time.

Annoushka Ducas:
Yeah. Sort of took away any kind of question.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah.

Annoushka Ducas:
And how did your parents react when you told them that? Because presumably they didn't know you were going out with him either.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
My mom did. I'm very chatty with my mom about everything. I wouldn't have been able to keep that a secret from her. But she was really helpful actually because when I phoned her and said, "I think I'm pregnant," and she said, "It might not be the right time and it might not be the right man, but it's the right baby." And I think for both Richard and I, that gave us a bit of advice that meant that we could just have permission to still sort of continue our dating in amongst the fact that we're also going to be parents.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
So it was almost like we decided, are we ready to be parents? Are we going to have this baby? Yes. And then it was like, okay, well, now we know that's going to be fine. Let's focus on us. So we still dated. He didn't move in until two weeks before Sonny was born. We still dated. I met his parents with like a four month bump. I mean, it's all quite comedic, but we just tried to handle it in a way that gave us space to make sure our relationship felt right. But actually, I really knew it was fine. I knew in my heart it was going to be right.

Annoushka Ducas:
Are you a very instinctive person?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, definitely. And I don't really tend to overthink things too much and I'm quite happy to go with the flow. And I think in a lot of ways having an unexpected baby and especially him coming into the world a lot quicker than I was expecting, it sets you up quite well for a lot of parenthood. There's just so much about it you can't plan for and you can't predict. You've just got to react.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
But you know when you hear people saying, "Oh, I plan on doing this," or, "I'm going to make sure I take my baby to these places so that they're really into that." And you think, you don't know who that person is yet. And maybe they will be really into that, but you've got to react more. It's a lot more reactive all around and I realized that.

Annoushka Ducas:
It so is. I've got four. So I feel like amateur actually.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No. Four is very similar to five.

Annoushka Ducas:
But I don't think it's ever a good moment. There's not a good, convenient moment having a baby, is it?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Definitely not.

Annoushka Ducas:
If there was a convenient moment, none of us would have babies.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I know. I say that's to my friends, actually. I do say that. Just there thinking, when should I do this? I'm like, well, they're never going to be a hundred percent right. Definitely not.

Annoushka Ducas:
But 18 years on, so what's your secret for happy marriage?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Well, I don't really know, of course. You'd have to sort of ask me when I've been... I don't know. I feel like that's like a really... I don't want to be like a smug person, but I suppose being good in the here and now for me has always relied on keeping in step with each other, lots of communication, and everyday kindness. I think you can't place too much on the big sweeping romantic gestures.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
They're very lovely, but they don't really work very well alongside normal life. For me, it's like little things. If Rich makes a cup tea from self, make one for me. Ask me how my day has been. I check in with him. Just those little everyday things, especially when you're raising a young family. There's so much time when you're really just delegating and managing stuff. And I think also it helps I always really like him no matter what.

Annoushka Ducas:
I mean, the friendship is the most...

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. And I don't want to cross the line. There's definitely a boundary as well about how we speak to each other and what's okay. If either of us say things or act in a way that we don't think is cool, just saying, "You know what? I didn't really like that." It's very easy, isn't it, to get into bad habits of how you converse, I think, when you're very familiar with each other.

Annoushka Ducas:
And very busy and very manic with five children and two careers and all of those things.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Exactly.

Annoushka Ducas:
Sophie, because I work with my husband and I have done for a long time now, but how do you balance that? So will he go on tour with you next year?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, he will actually, but we didn't always do that. After we started dating, we actually stopped touring together and Richard span the feeling really took off. And he was away a lot. When Sonny was little, he was away a lot. So there was a long time when we did have quite separate things and that suited us for then better. But now I love the fact we do things together and we have lots of shared experiences and it means you can kind of eek out the fun.

Annoushka Ducas:
So when you go on tour, I presume you've got some help with the children. Is it a UK tour?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
That one will be. Yeah. It depends what I'm up to really. Actually, there is a bit at the end that's Europe as well. I mean, my tour is not until next March. So I haven't got into any of the logistics yet. Something will happen is usually my catch phrase for these things. Sometimes I don't worry.

Annoushka Ducas:
Do both of your parents get involved, you and Richard, with the kids? So are they good grand parents?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Oh, they're wonderful. But no, I don't use them as child care. I don't rely on them that way. My mom still has very much her own life going on. She only lives 10 minutes away, but she does her own thing and she's been very smart that she tends to do one on one with the kids. She very rarely has more than one of them, which I think is really clever. And I'm definitely going to do that when I'm a grandma. So this afternoon she's taking out the 12 year old, but I don't use her as part of my child care armory.

Annoushka Ducas:
Because some grandparents really want to do this.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Of course. Yeah. I think what I really want from her is what's happened, just for her to be this brilliant, unconditional love, supportive grandma that doesn't have any of the judgment that comes with a parent. You don't know what you're doing but you do anyway. And so consequently, they've all got a really good relationship with her.

Annoushka Ducas:
Well, that's neatly onto your next charm, which I absolutely love. When I kind of was trying to work out how to design this, I was like, oh, this is such a lovely charm. So it's a hand with different little jewels in each fingertip with a heart on the palm of my hand. First of all, I just love the description. So I've seen it in yellow gold and almost just with a kind of fringe at the wrist, which might be kind of lace or something in pearls and diamonds. And then on each of the fingertips, I think it would be so lovely to have each of the children's birthstones.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. I've realized that's what you've done. Oh, lovely. That's so sweet.

Annoushka Ducas:
And then I see the little heart, just a carved [inaudible 00:37:32] heart made of red agate in the palm of the hand. I just think this would be so gorgeous.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, it's very beautiful.

Annoushka Ducas:
Yeah. Really, really pretty. So obviously, it is to represent your five children and motherhood. But I can see you've also got a tattoo on your arm. It says family on it. So tell me a bit about how you... I mean, I think I'm right. You had a terrible time with the two eldest, didn't you, pregnancy wise?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
They were both born early. Yeah. So I had something called preeclampsia, which is a really unglamorous pregnancy condition where I went very puffy and they had to deliver my babies essentially for my health actually. So Sonny was born eight weeks early and Kit nine weeks early. Kit was particularly tiny, actually. He was a two and a half pound baby. He was very little.

Annoushka Ducas:
Oh my God. Terrifying.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It was, but then we didn't know any different, which I think helped. And also my sister, Martha, who's now 30, when I was 11, she was born 10 weeks early. So I'd seen...

Annoushka Ducas:
Same preeclampsia?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Actually, no. My mom just spontaneously had her waters broke and she went into early labor. So it was a very different thing, but I was home when that had happened. And so I'd seen a happy outcome from that beginning and been familiar with babies, with the wires and the incubator and all of that stuff. So when Sonny was born, I think I took it more in my stride because of that and thought, well, it's okay. I know that Martha's fine. So he'll be fine. And I don't know why I just thought I'll just keep having babies after that. That is actually barking.

Annoushka Ducas:
Because actually two like that, you think it would put you off completely.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I think I just was really keen to just believe the consultant when they said it's very unlikely to happen again. Obviously I went against to the grain there, but I still thought the third time, sure, it's fine. And I remember thinking, but if that one's premature, I'll definitely stop. I think I just really wanted to have more kids and was just determined to believe whichever bit of news was positive.

Annoushka Ducas:
So hang on a minute. I mean, at what point in your life did you think, "I really want lots of children?"

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I don't think I did. I just think I got quite into it.

Annoushka Ducas:
So did you like being pregnant before you got to this stage?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
The first one, no. I was really bad at that pregnancy. I felt pretty terrible. But then I started to get more into it. And actually the last three where I've got to the end and carried full term, I've really enjoyed it, particularly I think with Mickey, my fifth baby, because I ended up going on tour. When I was about six months pregnant, I did a big gig at the Royal Festival Hall with a 40 piece orchestra.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And when the gig was in planning, I knew I was pregnant, but no one else did. And I thought, oh, I've really taken on too much here. And I was actually quite a bit freaked out. I thought maybe I've been a bit stupid here. But when it came to it and I was in this sequin cat suit with this big bump, I felt brilliant. I felt like what a great way to be able to have this moment. And I loved it. It felt really celebratory.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And then I took him on tour with me after that as well with an orchestra. So he was like four or five months old. And I felt like it gave us this space because he came with me and obviously the little one stayed here. And I just found it so wholesome. I do this amazing gig where I had literally a conductor and a 20 piece orchestra and my bands there. Richard was with me. And then we'd come off stage and they would be waiting for me with this little beautiful bumper and this Moses bus, on the tour bus. And I was like, this is the life. This is great. I felt really clever.

Annoushka Ducas:
And also so privileged in a way, because the youngest quite often doesn't get the attention in a big old family.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. Privileged child. Because I'd be on tour and people say, "Is this your first?" And I was like, "Oh, that's nice."

Annoushka Ducas:
A privilege for him too.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. I don't know if he'd remember that bit. But I think Mickey has really loved having his family home so much in the last year. He's a very, very happy little boy. And I think that's definitely rubbed off that he's had all these big brothers. And I'm sure it's the same in your family too. I always say that the baby of the bunch, that's the PG spot. Everybody's pleased to see you and everybody's always pleased to see Mickey.

Annoushka Ducas:
And does he get away with murder?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Absolutely. And he thinks he's a big boy. I mean, it's really funny watching the confidence that comes off someone who's got these big brothers. He just things, all right, this is how life works. But yeah, he's still really little.

Annoushka Ducas:
And so they really help out. Do they kind of help out look after each other?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, definitely with him. They're all quite savvy with how to keep an eye on him, I think. And sometimes they're reading bedtime stories and he gets lots of cuddles. I mean, if anything, I think they'd probably be more cuddly with him. He's the one who can be a bit like suddenly go nah, and push them off and come and find me. But I think they're always ready with that with him. They love him. He's sweet.

Annoushka Ducas:
You're the only woman in a six man house.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Though I always say, no matter how many kids I'd had, and whether they're boys or girls, I'd always be the only mum. And I think that is its own space in it.

Annoushka Ducas:
That's really true, actually.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And this is a very feminine house. And luckily for me, I've never really had much idea about having boys or girls. I just wanted people and they're such different people. And yourself, I'm sure from having a few kids, it forms the spectrum and they're quite savvy. They'll sort of look at what's gone before and think that seems to be a gap. I think I'll head into that space. And I think it's brought out different sides of their personality from what's gone before. So some are more bookish, some are more extrovert, some are more artistic, some are more scientific. It's sort of like this spectrum. I feel like across the board, I've kind of got most things represented, really.

Annoushka Ducas:
You've obviously done a fantastic job.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I don't know. Let me get them all to adult hood and then you can see how I've done.

Annoushka Ducas:
Just in terms of how you are as a mum compared to how you were brought up, is it similar? Do you have a different way? Do you think you behave differently the way you were brought up?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I think I'm quite similar actually, especially to my mum. I mean, I've definitely got a lot of my dad in there, too, but I think I can see that I've taken a lot from him. And I also still seek her out a lot for advice. She's got a very good way of looking at the world and she's positive and pragmatic. And I think that I've tried to incorporate as much of that into my mindset as well because I think it's quite good stuff to have in your armory.

Annoushka Ducas:
Well, it's good to have the wisdom, isn't it?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah.

Annoushka Ducas:
Really, really, really good. And when you were growing up and she was on Blue Peter and people knew who she was, et cetera, presumably in your peer group, how was that for you and how do your children now feel like that about because it's kind of come full circle for them, hasn't it?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. I think I have mimicked a lot of the same things. Well, I suppose the only thing I'd say is the difference is that as you said, it was really my peers that were watching my mum. So that was quite intense. And I think now for my kids, it's really lots of times where what I'm up to and what they're up to are completely different things. Most of the time, what I'm up to doesn't really knock on the door of too much of what they're up to at school.

Annoushka Ducas:
So then they're not having to deal with their friends, "Oh your mum. I didn't know your mum is..."

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Maybe a little bit, but it's not something we really talk about. And you know what? Kids are like, they come in the door and it's all about what's happening in their worlds and it's not something... I think that's one of the things I love about family life is the fact that it's sometimes a little bit too grounding, quite frankly.

Annoushka Ducas:
I think we can all totally simplify.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I need a good mojojo around there.

Annoushka Ducas:
So your second last charm is the charm six is the Blythe doll. I looked this up, actually. I was like, okay, what's Blythe doll?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
She's quirky, isn't she?

Annoushka Ducas:
She's really quirky. But I'm so excited about the idea of making a little doll like this.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
She can make a cute charm.

Annoushka Ducas:
Yeah. She'd be so adorable. So I see her absolutely three-dimensional. I think she'd have kind of wobbly legs, wobbly arms. So she's going to be yellow gold, black hair and blue eyes, all of which I think quite modeled on you. And when I looked her up, so I think she'd have this little white lace dress.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, it's cute.

Annoushka Ducas:
Tell me about this Blythe doll. I mean, I could see because you obviously collect dolls amongst many other things.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. I collect all sorts of stuff. I didn't really mean to collect dolls, by the way. If I was writing down my passions, I wouldn't put doll collector.

Annoushka Ducas:
Because it's a bit random.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. It just happened.

Annoushka Ducas:
So is this eBay? Is it eBay?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah. So I found out about eBay because of Blythe. Because I had a photo book. So this would have been when I was about 17, 18. And it was by a photographer called Gina Garen. And it was all pictures of this doll, Blythe. And from that, I was talking about it with a friend and she said, "Oh, you'd probably find one of those on eBay." And I was like, another fad. And this would have been when eBay was just starting out. So I became an eBayer and found all manner of rubbish before I bought Blythe, which I think was probably after about three years or something. Because a lot of them are very, very expensive and outside of my budget.

Annoushka Ducas:
Were they limited edition?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
They were just only around for a year. I think they got canceled because I think she scared kids probably. So her head is the size of maybe an orange and then her body is average size. I can show you one afterwards, if you would like. I've got one next door. And she has a string in the back of her head, which when you pull it, it turns for different eye colors. You have your conventional ones like blue and green, but then there's also orange and pink.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
So it's a little bit intense. But she ended up having a bit of resurgence because the Japanese market got really excited about Blythe and she ended up being bought by a company called Takara. And in Japan, you've actually got whole shops that are Takara Blythe shops. So you can go in there. And they of course take it to the nth degree with different wigs and outfits and all this stuff. And they're different sizes and diaries and books and bags and everything.

Annoushka Ducas:
So it's their version of Barbie?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I think probably a little bit more adult collector. I went to the shop when I was lucky enough to visit Tokyo last year and it was filled with those girls dressed in these pack it, fresh, macular, coordinated outfits. And I didn't see any kids in there. But I think I'd had a soft spot for Blythe because she was kind of a little bit weird and a bit kooky and it gave her a character and I thought, wow, maybe those kids back in the seventies were scared of you, but I like you.

Annoushka Ducas:
Thank you for that. Because I was actually fascinated as, how do you get to start collecting dolls, particularly...

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It's a slippery slope.

Annoushka Ducas:
Dolls are kind of spooky.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
They are a bit. And I think there's a lot of stuff in my house that probably does scare my kids to be honest. And I feel like when they're older, they're going to start tell me about all the things that used to give them nightmares because I'm always finding weird stuff and pictures. I can reassure you, it's still a happy, colorful, loving home.

Annoushka Ducas:
It doesn't look. Nothing looks spooky here. I'm surrounded by all these incredible but really detailed and perfectly curated and carefully put.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
You know what? I like being surrounded by things. It's like my bedside table has got piles and piles of books. And I've tried it where I've cleared it all off, but I don't like it as much. I like stuff. If it's too tidy, it actually makes me a bit restless.

Annoushka Ducas:
Having collected so much stuff and all these miniatures and stuff, I got to a point now where I'm like now I've really got to clear the decks a bit.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Put it on eBay. I'll probably off of you.

Annoushka Ducas:
So Sophie, onto your last charm. It's quite a challengeous charm to make.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Sorry. I wanted it all there. I didn't know.

Annoushka Ducas:
You really did. So you said it's a tiny fish and chips with a gherkin and ketchup. Okay. So that's quite a lot of ram into a tiny.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
You've done it. It's beautiful.

Annoushka Ducas:
It's beautiful, but I've drawn it. So it'll be more challenging to make. But if we'll be able to make it, you'll tell. But I'd seen it as kind of really traditional fish and chips kind of in a newspaper really is how I like to see it. So the newspaper will be engraved in white gold. And then you can see the tail of the fish. So again, he's kind of diamond tail. So you can see his scales, if that's the word. Yellow gold chips sticking out. And then we've got the green gherkin, which was really important part of the story.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It is.

Annoushka Ducas:
I've done the green gherkin in green tsavorites, which are quite sharp greenstone, I think will look gherkin. And then hanging off the side is the ketchup bottle. And the ketchup bottle is also three-dimensional rubies set in rose gold with a white label, but we'll say ketchup on it. Talk me through these fish and chips and the gherkin and the ketchup.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
So I definitely wanted to have food in there somewhere. I love food. I get very excited about what to eat. Both Richard and I cook. However, of course, fish and chips is not something we would cook. We would go and get that from the fish and chip shop. And I think it's probably, you can trace through in my life that going to the fish and chip shops was something that I did fairly regularly with my mom or with my dad.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It was always a bit of a treat. And even now, if Richard and I want to do something a bit celebratory, this might be the way that we choose to celebrate it. I remember when I got to the final of Strictly, we had a fish and chips meal. If we're in for New Year's Eve, that's what we'll have, that with champagne.

Annoushka Ducas:
Do the kids like it?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
They do. But I think it's my, I say it's my death Romeo, which is a bit dark, but you know what I mean? It's like my favorite meal, basically, fish and chips. But it has to have a gherkin because I love gherkins. And sometimes I'll just go into the fish and chips shop and get a couple of gherkins.

Annoushka Ducas:
Can you just go and buy a bottle of gherkins?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
They taste different from the fish and chips shop.

Annoushka Ducas:
They've got the fat ones there.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Exactly.

Annoushka Ducas:
Not as little.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No, no, no. So when I was a kid, I would quite regularly just get gherkins and eat them.

Annoushka Ducas:
That was quite unusual for a child.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I know. And I really like the vinegariness, the sweet vinegariness. I'm quite into that sort of thing. But the ketchup has to be there because I adore condiments. So ketchup is probably my all time fave, although mayonnaise would probably be up there too.

Annoushka Ducas:
I love the fact that this last charm is just fish and chips. It's such simple pleasures.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I know. And it's funny because you say, what's it all about? And it's like, I just really like eating. We try and expand, but I just love fish and chips.

Annoushka Ducas:
Anyway, so next time the celebration, I think you got new book coming out.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I have. So I've written about a lot of the things we've been talking about and more. So it's been quite nice because a lot of these things are quite close to the surface again, really. Yeah, that comes out in October. I've done it this year.

Annoushka Ducas:
What's it called?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
It's called Spinning Plates. And initially I was approached about just doing a series of essays about, I don't know, I suppose thought bases on things. But to be honest, it just all came tumbling out as I know I should've wrote about everything. So there it is.

Annoushka Ducas:
I'm just in awe you've got time to do all of this stuff. It's absolutely extraordinary, alongside five children.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Well, I have support, but also I really wanted to. And I think when you want to get things done, you just find it, don't you? The thing for me that I think made it go a lot quicker and easier... Oh, hello. Totally quick. [crosstalk 00:54:03]

Annoushka Ducas:
It's fine.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
If we open that door, there's no going back. What's your last question?

Annoushka Ducas:
My last question is, so Sophie, as you know, I'd like to make you one of these charms. And I think the question is, is when somebody finds your life in seven charms, what do you want the story or your legacy to be?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
Yeah, I was thinking of getting a legacy, which is an interesting one because it's not really something I ever used to think about. And funny enough, one of the first podcasts I did for my podcast was a woman called Candice Brathwaite. She's written a book called I'm Not Your Baby Mother. And she spoke a lot about legacy. And it was really startling because I thought I've literally never thought in those terms.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And I suppose over the last year, with lock down, a lot of people have had to think a little bit more about that sort of thing. So I think all told, the legacy is either hoping to hopefully raise well five people. That's a good start. Or the discos and the music. I don't really need to have any big shakes. If my great, great, great grandbabies look back and I was just someone who wore sequins and sang about the place, I'm actually okay with that.

Annoushka Ducas:
Well, that's so lovely. So which charm are we going to do?

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
I don't know.

Annoushka Ducas:
Please don't say it's fish and chips.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
No, it's not fish and chips. It's not a fish and chips and it's not the arm and it's not the cherry and it's not the chip. So I think we're kind of between... I don't think it's Blythe either, actually. I think it's got to be either the hand or the disco ball. I'm kind of tempted to go for the hand. I think the disco ball I've represented in lots of different ways externally, but none of it would mean anything without the babies and the family. So I think that kind of is everything, actually.

Annoushka Ducas:
I think you'll love it. It's going to be divide. It's going to be really, really divide.

Sophie Ellis Bextor:
And good for me, I had so many babies. I get more jewels.

Annoushka Ducas:
You get more jewels. And actually that should come as a saber thing. Thank you so much for listening to My Life in Seven Charms with me, Annoushka Ducas. Please do like, review, and subscribe to hear our latest episodes. Thank you to Fairley Media for our audio production.